Amy, you said “… following my Great Books reading club. We’re reading (more or less) along Adler’s Ten-Year Reading Plan…”. OMGOSH, that’s a lot of reading! I don’t know where you have extra time for your other extracurricular activities (Hermeneutics homework and Substack weekly articles! Do tell! 😆 💯
Per your thoughts on the magical nature of Nature, David Hinton notes the difference between Western and Chinese writing as language in the West being mimetic: "words refer to things by pointing at them as if from some transcendental outside realm, the same realm in which the Western spirit-center seems to exist". Whereas the classic Chinese saw everything as conscious, with no "ontological separation between material reality and immaterial spirit-center". Hinton describes the ancient Chinese conception of the Cosmos as "awakened existence-tissue," something that words can fully capture and imbue so that poetry itself is a deep spiritual practice.
There is no real reason why Western literature and experience cannot be held in the same spirit, except for contemporary convention, which can easily be overturned.
That’s so very interesting Rodney! Thank you for bringing this difference to my attention. You’re right about the mimetic quality of European languages. I wonder if the difference emerges first in language then? In European languages, there is a distinction, a grammatical separation between subject and object. I’d be interested to know how this functions in Chinese?
The written language matters too, I think. Chinese uses pictographs, as I understand, which have a 1:1 correspondence too. Something to research and think about!
A point of clarification: I’m not advocating for “magical” thinking—by enchantment, I mean the recognition of a transcendent plane of value and meaning…that there’s a “vertical” plane of existence that intersects with our horizontality. Magic denotes exercising volition (i.e. desire) over and against reality—to make it do what is not its nature to do. In that sense, magic is more like technology than religion.
Good point on the term 'magic.' That's a fluke. I misuse it often, as in magic sunsets and ice cream cones. I like the transcendental plane concept. Precise and thought-provoking.
I do think the mechanics of the language make a difference. The logographs, Hanzi, of China are like stories within themselves, and could have a variety of meanings, so context and even pronunciation matter. But getting to the essence of Hinton's point, Chinese poetry focuses on empty space, much like Chinese painting. It articulates the emptiness surrounding the words, "it's not just open to silence, it articulates silence." I don't know if the difference first emerges in language so much as it's reflected in the language. I think it may first emerge in the Daoist conception of everything being Divine and connected, ultimately different vibrations of the same frequency, even the emptiness (which is loaded with potential). The language of poetry aims to reflect that.
Anyway, thanks for the interaction. I didn't mean to get sidetracked on a different subject, just seeing the similarities. I am exercising my own fascination with the unlikely link between rational words and the irrational (or supra-rational) mystical mysteries that surround us.
Hi, yes, thanks Walter! I read it when it first came out and quite honestly, I had thought to send it to you…but I guess I didn’t! Oops! 🙃 😁
I really appreciated that one but even more, I would recommend his last encyclical, Dilexit Nos. I made that my spiritual reading over the course of 2 months and it was life-changing!
Lol, I'm sure you did send it to me. It's not uncommon for me to go "aha" long after everyone else does. Dilexit Nos? (Don't tell anyone, but I've never heard of it.). Will definitely check it out!
Amy, you said “… following my Great Books reading club. We’re reading (more or less) along Adler’s Ten-Year Reading Plan…”. OMGOSH, that’s a lot of reading! I don’t know where you have extra time for your other extracurricular activities (Hermeneutics homework and Substack weekly articles! Do tell! 😆 💯
Love, mom
Happy 3rd birthday and many more years of writing ✍️ for you! 🎂 ~~ mom 🥰
Thanks Mom… ☺️💗
Looking forward to joining the journey.
Per your thoughts on the magical nature of Nature, David Hinton notes the difference between Western and Chinese writing as language in the West being mimetic: "words refer to things by pointing at them as if from some transcendental outside realm, the same realm in which the Western spirit-center seems to exist". Whereas the classic Chinese saw everything as conscious, with no "ontological separation between material reality and immaterial spirit-center". Hinton describes the ancient Chinese conception of the Cosmos as "awakened existence-tissue," something that words can fully capture and imbue so that poetry itself is a deep spiritual practice.
There is no real reason why Western literature and experience cannot be held in the same spirit, except for contemporary convention, which can easily be overturned.
That’s so very interesting Rodney! Thank you for bringing this difference to my attention. You’re right about the mimetic quality of European languages. I wonder if the difference emerges first in language then? In European languages, there is a distinction, a grammatical separation between subject and object. I’d be interested to know how this functions in Chinese?
The written language matters too, I think. Chinese uses pictographs, as I understand, which have a 1:1 correspondence too. Something to research and think about!
A point of clarification: I’m not advocating for “magical” thinking—by enchantment, I mean the recognition of a transcendent plane of value and meaning…that there’s a “vertical” plane of existence that intersects with our horizontality. Magic denotes exercising volition (i.e. desire) over and against reality—to make it do what is not its nature to do. In that sense, magic is more like technology than religion.
Good point on the term 'magic.' That's a fluke. I misuse it often, as in magic sunsets and ice cream cones. I like the transcendental plane concept. Precise and thought-provoking.
I do think the mechanics of the language make a difference. The logographs, Hanzi, of China are like stories within themselves, and could have a variety of meanings, so context and even pronunciation matter. But getting to the essence of Hinton's point, Chinese poetry focuses on empty space, much like Chinese painting. It articulates the emptiness surrounding the words, "it's not just open to silence, it articulates silence." I don't know if the difference first emerges in language so much as it's reflected in the language. I think it may first emerge in the Daoist conception of everything being Divine and connected, ultimately different vibrations of the same frequency, even the emptiness (which is loaded with potential). The language of poetry aims to reflect that.
Anyway, thanks for the interaction. I didn't mean to get sidetracked on a different subject, just seeing the similarities. I am exercising my own fascination with the unlikely link between rational words and the irrational (or supra-rational) mystical mysteries that surround us.
Wow, there’s something quite profound in that image of silence as it manifests in Chinese art and poetry. Thank you. 🙏
Amy, I just saw this. Were you aware of this encyclical by Pope Francis on literature? I was not.
https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/letters/2024/documents/20240717-lettera-ruolo-letteratura-formazione.html
Hi, yes, thanks Walter! I read it when it first came out and quite honestly, I had thought to send it to you…but I guess I didn’t! Oops! 🙃 😁
I really appreciated that one but even more, I would recommend his last encyclical, Dilexit Nos. I made that my spiritual reading over the course of 2 months and it was life-changing!
Lol, I'm sure you did send it to me. It's not uncommon for me to go "aha" long after everyone else does. Dilexit Nos? (Don't tell anyone, but I've never heard of it.). Will definitely check it out!
Magnificent Amy. Especially anxious to see Harry Potter come to life on your pages. Sounds terrific!
It will be fun and interesting, I hope!
Looking forward to your thoughts as you progress along this journey.
You’re so kind Matthew, thanks! 😊